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Ep 121  |  Pella Thiel

Pella Thiel: “Criminalizing Ecocide: The Rights of Nature”

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TGS121 Pella Thiel The Great Simplification

Show Summary

On this episode, Nate is joined by maverick ecologist Pella Thiel to discuss the legal frameworks behind the Ecocide and Rights of Nature Movements. Our current economic and legal systems have no mechanisms to consider nature in our decision making – much less to make systemic planetary stability a priority. Could redefining the destruction of our biosphere to be considered a crime parallel with that of genocide alter the way we structure laws governing our societies and economies? How are countries legislating and enforcing these ideas – even going so far as to act against the flow of the superorganism? Most importantly, how could top-down legal ideas such as these interact with bottom-up individual action to create powerful shifts in cultural values and motivations? 

About Pella Thiel

Pella Thiel is a maverick ecologist, part-time farmer, full-time activist and teacher in ecopsychology. She is the co-founder of Swedish hubs of international networks like Swedish Transition Network and End Ecocide Sweden and a knowledge expert in the UN Harmony with Nature programme. Pella was awarded the Swedish Martin Luther King Award in 2023 and the Environmental Hero of the year 2019.

In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President

That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher

We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF

This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

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00:00 – Pella Thiel works + info, Reality Roundtable on Local Food systems, Transition Town Sweden, Ecocide, Rights of Nature

02:39 – Yasuní National Park Ecuador, native tree species in Sweden, The U.S., and Ecuador

03:20 – Ecuador has 1,500 species of birds while the continental U.S. has 800

04:40 – Polly Higgins

05:05 – Olof Palme, First prime minister to use the term ‘ecocide’

05:45 – Crimes against peace, international criminal court

09:14 – Ecocide treaties and conventions

13:29 – 15% of emissions are from fossil fuel companies themselves and 85% from consumers

15:51 – Pension funds used for fossil fuel extraction, legal rights

17:55 – Effects of Sweden outlawing child beating in the 1970s

21:08 – Industrial fishing in the Baltic Sea

22:31 – Belgium first European state to legislate national and international ecocide crimes

22:48 – EU including ecocide principles in the new environmental crime directive

23:09 – UN Environmental Programme

23:13 – Al-Mizan: A Covenant for the Earth charter including ecocide

26:23 – Wes Jackson

28:01 – Post-tragic

29:31 – Department of Natural Resources

33:46 – Overton Window

33:55 – ICC Policy Paper on Environmental Crimes Responses regarding ecocide

34:36 – Panama Rights of Nature legislation, Declaration of Panama’s Largest Copper Mine Unconstitutional

38:21 – Donella Meadows, Iceberg

42:10 – Pollution in the Baltic Sea, crashing fish populations

44:20 – More than 30 countries implementing Rights of Nature, Ecuador the first within its constitution

48:27 – Thomas Berry

49:58 – Cormac Cullinan

50:49 – Inclusion of rights of nature into the Convention on Biodiversity

52:19 – Ecuador referendum to end oil extraction in Yasuní

52:59 – Indigenous knowledge and the Rights of Nature

58:15 – Naturlagen

58:39 – Buckminster Fuller

1:01:51 – Environmental activists’ deaths

1:03:15 – Angela Davis

1:05:08 – Robin Wall Kimmerer

1:11:12 – Alexa Firmenich, TGS Episode, Sit-spot

1:14:02 – School Gardens

Links to learn more:

‘Ecocide in Gaza’: does scale of environmental destruction amount to a war crime?

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