Great simplification pulsing lines

Ep 57  |  Gaya Herrington

Gaya Herrington: “Humanity’s Soul: Life or Growth?”

Check out this podcast

Gaya Herrington The Great Simplification

Show Summary

On this episode, Nate speaks with econometrician and sustainability researcher Gaya Herrington about her new book, Five Insights for Avoiding Global Collapse, a more in-depth and personal telling of her 2021 review of the Limits to Growth (LTG). More than 50 years after the original LTG report was released, the model trajectories remain relevant – and also controversial – as we continue to track the ‘business as usual’ scenario, which results in collapse in the ‘standard run’ of the original LTG model. Are we locked in on this path and are our growth based economic systems optimized to keep us there? Is it possible to shift our goals to a different path, away from growth, focused on the well-being of all life? Can we plan or mitigate the path to descent?

About Gaya Herrington

Gaya is a Dutch econometrician, sustainability researcher, and women’s rights activist. Gaya holds masters’ degrees in both econometrics and sustainability studies. After becoming disillusioned by initially working in the financial sector Gaya became the executive director of StoereVrouwen, a non-profit Dutch women’s movement promoting sustainable economic policies through activism. In 2014, Herrington became the Director of Sustainability Services of KPMG. Most recently, her study on the projections made in the 1972 Limits to Growth report was widely publicized internationally. She is currently Vice President Sustainability Research at Schneider Electric.

In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President

That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher

We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF

This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

00:40 – Gaya Herrington works + info

03:02Limits to Growth Report, Gaya’s update on LtG, Dennis Meadows + TGS Episode

14:10Planetary Boundaries

14:30S-Curve

16:05Overshoot Date

16:40Breaking Boundaries

19:16Technology takes a long timefusion breakthrough

21:15 Donella Meadowsblack box/systems dynamics

23:55Gaya’s Book: Five Insights for Avoiding Global Collapse

25:20Homo economicus

27:58Once physcial needs are met, social needs are more about purpose and less about materials

29:20Reports studying trickle down economics and negative effects of income inequality (reduced trust in others and government, environmental effects)

30:10Thorstein Veblen, conspicuous consumption

30:58Increase in social inequality

31:10Reduced social capital

31:55 Climate action requires significant decrease in global consumption

32:55Circular economy

34:23Income inequality erodes the middle – women coming out 50/50, while men are impacted more with 30/70

38:43NOT For Sale Frankly

42:04Nate’s Paper and Video on the Superorganism

44:48How money is actually made (by banks, not the Fed)

46:25Discussions on financially valuing nature

49:09Resource scare of the 70s

53:14Club of Rome

54:07Transformational Economics Committee, EarthforAll book

55:245 leverage points in the global system

57:05The benefits of empowering women

57:25Domination vs partnership mindsets in organizing society

1:02:05Well-being economy

1:02:16Doughnut Economics, Kate Raworth 

1:02:26Mariana Mazzucato

1:02:37Mission Economics

1:02:57Riane Eisler

1:06:39New Zealand government well being principles

1:06:54Bhutan’s interest in well-being governments

1:11:40ESGs

1:11:55 More environmentally conscious companies have been shown to perform better

1:12:33Europe’s regulations moving towards circularity

1:24:45Why do humans innovate

Download transcript
Back to episodes
Rod SchoonoverThe National Security Risks We’re Not Prepared ForWith Rod SchoonoverThe Great SimplificationEp 183 | Rod Schoonover

National security concerns have been the invisible hand guiding governance throughout recorded history. In the 20th century, it was defined by a country versus country dynamic: whichever nation was the strongest and most strategic was also the safest. But today, our biggest national security threats don’t come from opposing nations – they are “actorless threats” that emerge from the breakdown of the complex systems we all depend on – from the stability of our planetary systems to our intricately complex and fragile global supply chains. In this unprecedented landscape, what is required of us in order to keep our citizens safe?

Watch nowJun 18, 2025
Movie Re-ReleaseThe Systems Science Behind Our Global CrisesWith Nate HagensThe Great SimplificationEp 182 | Nate Hagens

Three years ago, my team and I created a 30-minute movie that provides a comprehensive systems analysis of the human predicament—spanning energy, economics, ecology, and behavioral psychology. This beautifully animated film aims to help viewers understand the interconnected crises defining our era.

Watch nowJun 13, 2025
Globalization End GameHelena Norberg-Hodge HeadshotGlobalization End GameWith Helena Norberg-HodgeThe Great SimplificationEp 181 | Helena Norberg-Hodge

Over the last few decades, humanity has globalized everything – from food production and supply chains to communication and information systems – making countries, businesses, and individuals more connected and reliant on each other than ever before. Yet, with this increased interconnectedness comes more complexity and fragility. What have we lost through the globalization process, and how might we fortify our communities by investing in local economies?

Watch nowJun 11, 2025

Subscribe to our Substack

Please enable JavaScript in your browser to complete this form.

The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future (ISEOF) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, founded in 2008, that conducts research and educates the public about energy issues and their impact on society.

Support our work
Get in touch
x