#126 | Frankly
Humanity as Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde: The Symptoms, Patterns, and Drivers
Description
In this week’s Frankly, Nate looks at how aggregate human behavior changes as groups scale from small tribes to large and complex societies. He uses the framing of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde throughout the episode to illustrate how traits that once helped small groups survive can serve to destabilize complex societies when expanded globally. Rather than a moral failing of the human species, he frames the more-than-human predicament as a predictable outcome that emerges when human instincts operate at large scales.
Nate also walks through the layers that make up the reality we experience. He starts with the major symptoms that increasingly draw our attention today like global heating, biodiversity loss, and geopolitical tensions. He then emphasizes that these surface problems are driven by recurring systemic patterns, which are kept in place by society-scale driving forces. The episode closes by asking the audience to reflect on what responsibility and agency look like in a world where powerful incentives shape collective outcomes.
Where do we see societal thresholds when scale removes the natural limits that once kept us in balance? How can we be aware of reinforcing deeper societal forces while trying to solve for symptoms? And if our instincts helped us survive in the past, what might a system that works to balance human nature and biophysical reality look like?
In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President
That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher
We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF
This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor
Show Notes & Links to Learn More
Download transcriptThe TGS team puts together these brief references and show notes for the learning and convenience of our listeners. However, most of the points made in episodes hold more nuance than one link can address, and we encourage you to dig deeper into any of these topics and come to your own informed conclusions.
00:18 – Theory of change, Probabilistic planning, Shortfall risk
00:55 – Frankly: Why Humans Are Better Than We Think
01:07 – Jeffrey Epstein, Epstein File Library
01:15 – Dark triad traits, How those traits shape society
01:45 – Small groups, Steep discount rates, Cognitive biases, Supernormal stimuli, Addiction, Social status, In-group/Out-group bias
02:07 – Behaviors of individuals and small groups have different dynamics than large groups of humans, Aggregate Behavior
02:28 – The Evolutionary Mismatch Hypothesis
02:46 – Jekyll and Hyde metaphor, Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
03:55 – Late-stage capitalism, Patriarchy, Colonialism
04:20 – The Metacrisis (Introduction video)
04:21 – Global heating, Biodiversity loss, Soil degradation, Currently exceeding seven of nine planetary boundaries, Rising inequality and poverty at the same time, All-time stock market highs, Geopolitical tensions, Attention fragmentation and psychological strain – widespread Depression, anxiety, and Loneliness, AI impact: Environment, Mental health
05:11 – Complex systems, Nth-order effects and authentic progress
05:45 – Biophysical economics, Nate’s net energy PhD thesis, Net energy matters more than gross energy, Time lags in environmental governance, Ecological lags, Growth is slow, collapse is fast
07:35 – Maximum Power Principle (More info)
07:45 – 80/20 Rule (Pareto Principle): Trees, Water
08:25 – Matthew Effect (Parable of the Talents): A small number of firms capture most of the profits, A small number of social media platforms capture most of the attention, A small number of countries capture most of the energy and materials
09:14 – Carrying capacity, Overshoot (Reindeer and Cod), Carbon Pulse
10:24 – Arms race, Game Theory, Multipolar trap, AI Race, Finance “Arms Race”
10:55: – Humans are incredibly social animals,
11:37 – Jevons Paradox and Rebound effect (More info)
12:05 – Fuel efficiency counterintuitively caused us to drive farther in bigger cars, Shipping efficiency gains outstripped by growth
12:39 – Tragedy of the commons, Game Theory
12:48 – Current challenges: Climate, Oceans, Weapons control, AI alignment, Financial stability
14:29 – Joseph Tainter (TGS Episode), The Collapse of Complex Societies
15:25 – The Great Simplification
16:10 – John Gowdy (TGS Ep 14), Lisi Krall (TGS Ep 86), Luke Kemp (TGS Ep 194 & Ep 153)
16:20 – Human domestication and agriculture developed in the stable holocene, The Holocene, The Agricultural Revolution
18:23 – Maximum power principle
19:50 – Economic Superorganism
20:40 – Laws of gravity
21:45 – Social status and hierarchy before agriculture, How it shifted with centralization and agriculture
23:35 – How abuse of power has been dealt with in smaller groups, Inuit attitude toward psychopathic behavior
23:50 – Goliath’s Curse: The History and Future of Societal Collapse by Luke Kemp
28:50 – Ancient instincts that ensured our survival, Oxytocin supports: Familial attachment and cooperation, Makes us prosocial to our in-group and anti-social to our out-group
30:00 – Overfishing, Nuclear arms race
30:35 – Strength of social identity and information processing
30:50 – People selectively credit/dismiss risks in ways that protect their group identity
31:30 – Delayed gratification vs. Time bias
31:40 – 300,000 years as a species
33:30 – Robert Costanza, Social trap
33:40 – Anthropocentriscism
34:20 – Nature is not included in our economy, Discussions on financially valuing nature
