Ep 151 | André Guimarães
André Guimarães: “Fires in the Rainforest: The Impossible Economics of a Disappearing Amazon”
Show Summary
For millions of years, the Amazon Rainforest has been home to a stunning array of plant and animal species, has shaped our world’s climate, provided for millions of humans, and, as today’s guest likes to put it, served as “the heart of the planet.” But what economic and political factors are putting this vital ecosystem at risk, and what can be done to keep the “world’s heart” beating for future generations of all species?
In this conversation, Nate is joined by agronomist & economist André Guimarães to explore the historical context – and modern expansion – of deforestation in Brazil; the difficult relationship between local economies, animal agriculture, and the health of the Amazon at large; and the role of policy in shaping environmental and developmental outcomes. André emphasizes the importance of indigenous peoples in conservation efforts, as well as the responsibility to ‘act locally while thinking globally’ to ensure that the Amazon can continue to provide not only for its inhabitants, but for the world at large.
Why is the Amazon Rainforest so important for global food production, and can it continue its massive output while sustaining the health of the forest? Why is the Amazon Rainforest burning? What is the Brazilian government’s current approach to regulating deforestation, and how do local Brazilians, their families, and their economic realities fit into the conversation? Finally, how can we fulfill our global responsibility, no matter where we live, to protect it before it’s too late?
About André Guimarães
André Guimarães is the Executive Director of the Amazon Environmental Research Institute, a Brazilian think tank focused on the Amazonian challenges for reaching zero deforestation and sustainable development. He is also the facilitator of the Coalition on Climate Forests and Agriculture, a network of 200+ entities from the rural sector, academia and civil society, focused on the development of a long-term vision for land use in Brazil.
Mr. Guimarães is currently the Chairman of the Board at the Amazon Institute for Mankind and the Environment. He also founded and served as the CEO of Brazil Forests, a company dedicated to forest management, conservation and restoration of natural resources.
In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President
That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher
We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF
This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor
Show Notes & Links to Learn More
00:00 – André Guimarães info, Amazon Environmental Research Institute, Coalition on Climate, Forests and Agriculture
The State of the Amazon Rainforest ISEOF Infosheet
00:36 – Carlos Nobre + TGS Episode
04:19 – Rio 1992 Earth Summit
06:54 – 0.5% of the Amazon had been deforested in 1975 + *18% of the Amazon is now deforested
07:16 – Deforestation in the Amazon
07:25 – Economic history of Brazil, Brazil food security over time + more info
08:05 – Embrapa
09:23 – Brazilian agricultural development
10:41 – Carbon storage in the Amazon + more info, the Amazon as a carbon source
11:30 – Brazil feeds *10% of global population
12:02 – Water footprint of soy in Brazilian Cerrado, water footprint of beef
13:02 – Severe drought and wildfires in the Amazon
13:40 – Trends in rainfall extremes in the Amazon
13:44 – Landslides in São Paulo
14:00 – Extreme floods in southern Brazil + impact on economy
14:10 – *The southern region is responsible for 17.2% of Brazil’s GDP
15:14 – Global flooding trends
15:35 – Trends in deforestation of the Amazon (*rate of deforestation peaked at almost 28,000 square kilometers in 2004)
16:57 – Deforestation declined by 80% between 2004 and 2012 in Brazil
18:08 – Deforestation under Bolsonaro + more info
18:28 – Deforestation under Lula
19:02 – *Around 8,000 square kilometers was deforested in 2023
19:36 – Public opinion on the importance of the Amazon
20:25 – Water recycling in the Amazon
20:30 – Around 80% of Brazilian electricity is generated from hydropower plants
21:12 – Hydroelectric crisis in Brazil + more info
22:36 – 90% of deforestation is illegal
23:15 – Criminal economies in the Amazon
25:00 – 70% of Brazil’s population is near the Atlantic coast
25:52 – Deforestation being financed by taxpayer money
26:50 – The Amazon’s environmental services + Brazilian beef exports
27:27 – Agricultural productivity in Brazil
28:20 – Forest proximity and soybean yield + landscape complexity and crop productivity
31:07 – Amazon forest degradation
31:10 – The Amazon approaching tipping points
31:53 – Hydrological cycle in the Amazon
33:44 – Environmental impact of poultry production in Brazil vs UK
35:25 – Emissions from electric vehicles
37:08 – Protein deficiencies globally
38:38 – Brazil’s Forest Code
39:55 – Rural agrarian reform settlements
40:22 – Smallholders responsible for *23% of deforestation
40:43 – Small farmers and technical assistance in the Amazon
41:53 – Poverty levels in Brazil (*In 2022, there were 67.8 million persons in poverty and 12.7 million in extreme poverty)
42:10 – Poverty levels in the Brazilian Amazon
43:36 – 80% of people in the Brazilian Amazon live in cities
44:30 – IPAM technical assistance to family farming
46:45 – Increasing productivity without deforesting the Amazon
48:35 – Chief Raoni, Instituto Raoni
50:20 – *Indigenous territories account for 28% of the Amazon
51:13 – Only 5% of deforestation in the Amazon is in indigenous territories
51:39 – The relationship between indigenous peoples and Amazonian ecosystems
54:47 – Uncontacted tribes in the Amazon
56:43 – Economic incentives for protecting the Amazon + New Economy for the Brazilian Amazon
58:15 – Number of earths needed to support different consumption levels
1:00:31 – Law preventing products causing deforestation from being sold in EU + more info
1:01:01 – EU Deforestation Regulation + more info
1:06:42 – Total cropland in Brazil
1:08:19 – Payment for Ecosystem Services in the Amazon + profitability of agroforestry
