Ep 232  |  Charles Eisenstein

The Collapse of Our Mythology: Can Humanity Choose What’s Next?

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The Great Simplification

Description

The world we live in today looks nothing like the world that was promised to our parents and grandparents. That promise was shaped by the idea that humans are separate from the rest of the natural world, and the right amount of cleverness would offer us endless protection and wealth. Today, as institutions hollow out and simply existing becomes more and more difficult, many of us are waking up to a different possibility: we are not separate at all. If we accept that our existence is interdependent with the existence of others, how might we live differently?

In this episode, Nate welcomes author and philosopher, Charles Eisenstein, for a long-requested conversation on the mythologies underneath civilization. For over two decades, Charles has argued that the crises defining modern life all trace back to the story of separation, the largely unspoken belief that each of us is an isolated self, competing against other selves and against a nature made of indifferent, exploitable resources. Charles traces how this story co-evolved with technology, language, and scale, and how quantitative thinking both extends and distorts our understanding of complex problems. He and Nate also discuss why Charles has come to believe that ecological and energy constraints will not force humanity onto a wiser path, rather that the choice has to be made consciously, person by person. 

With the story of separation starting to fall apart, do we have any say in which stories will emerge in its place? What sort of path might humanity veer toward if we start living into the truths we know but have been keeping buried? And if each of us begins to embody that story in our day-to-day lives, through small actions, choices, and beliefs, could it possibly build into a larger change in consciousness? 

About Charles Eisenstein

Charles Eisenstein is an American author, public speaker, and teacher whose work focuses on civilization, consciousness, money, and human cultural evolution. He graduated from Yale University in 1989 with a degree in Mathematics and Philosophy, and spent the following decade as a Chinese–English translator before turning to writing and speaking full-time.

He is the author of several books, including The Ascent of Humanity (2007), Sacred Economics (2011), The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible (2013), and Climate: A New Story (2018). His most recent book, The Coronation, examined the pandemic as a mirror of civilization’s relationship to control, fear, and uncertainty. His essays have circulated widely online, and he speaks and gives interviews frequently on themes spanning economics, ecology, and spirituality.

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

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The TGS team puts together these brief references and show notes for the learning and convenience of our listeners. However, most of the points made in episodes hold more nuance than one link can address, and we encourage you to dig deeper into any of these topics and come to your own informed conclusions.

Charles Eisenstein: Essays, Substack

Grab-and-Go Resources:

Go deeper on the show:  

 

Foundations:

 

Next steps – what you can do: Join the Work That Reconnects Network, Join the Buy Nothing Project, Find a Repair Café, Start a Homegrown National Park, Create ritual

Resources by Timestamp:

02:54 – Foundational stories and mythologies of civilization

04:17 – Story of separation

05:20 – Nature–culture divide

05:30 – Human exceptionalism: The Great Simplification Ep 213

06:15 – Zero-sum thinking

06:26 – Idea of progress

06:54 – Datafication of reality

07:20 – Memetics

07:39 – Homo economicus, Rational utility maximization

08:15 – Technological utopianism

08:52 – Alienation from institutions

09:32 – Ishmael, Daniel Quinn

09:45 – September 11 attacks

09:58 – Takers and leavers

10:20 – Web of life

10:38 – The Ascent of Humanity

10:42 – Derrick Jensen, John Zerzan, Anarcho-primitivism

11:20 – Lewis Mumford

11:29 – Control of fire by early humans, Origin of language, Stone tools

12:02 – Neocortex

12:09 – Eukaryote, Horizontal gene transfer

12:29 – Division of labour, Social hierarchy

12:54 – Teleology

13:34 – Standardization, Abstraction

14:13 – Metaphysics

15:28 – Species-level rite of passage

15:36 – More-than-human predicament

15:46 – Story of interbeing

16:01 – Thich Nhat Hanh, Interbeing

16:20 – Dependent origination

17:07 – Soil health and human health

18:34 – Firefly decline

19:31 – Cable news and algorithmic feeds

19:59 – Loss aversion

20:13 – Shifting baselines

20:34 – Dislocation theory of addiction

20:59 – Pornography addiction, Compulsive shopping

22:01 – Depression

23:24 – Genocide, Ecocide

23:55 – Factory model of schooling

24:13 – Dunbar’s number

24:47 – David Sloan Wilson (The Great Simplification Ep 56), Multilevel selection, Reality Blind: Multi-Level Selection

25:28 – The Selfish Gene, Extended evolutionary synthesis, Reality Blind: The Agenda of the Gene

25:33 – Endosymbiosis, Epigenetics

27:27 – History of money

28:00 – Money as a supernormal stimulus, Reality Blind: Supernormal Stimuli

29:00 – Our economic system and musical chairs

29:11 – Gift economy

31:33 – Money created as interest-bearing debt, Reality Blind: How is Money Created?, The Great Simplification Ep 30

32:02 – Growth imperative

32:31 – Commodification of nature

32:41 – Sacred Economics

32:44 – The Myth of the Machine

32:51 – Economic superorganism (Superorganism explained in 7 minutes)

33:40 – Theory of change

34:07 – Moloch, Reality Blind: The Games People Play

35:35 – War metaphors: War on drugs, War on poverty, War on carbon

36:29 – Complex systems

37:15 – Conspiracy theories

37:38 – In-group and out-group

38:22 – Climate: A New Story

38:29 – Carbon tunnel vision

39:23 – Streetlight effect, McNamara fallacy

40:08 – Galileo Galilei, René Descartes, Isaac Newton, David Hume

40:34 – Love as neurochemistry

41:29 – Nate’s Frankly on unordinary interventions

41:44 – Social capital, Internal rate of return

41:57 – Demonetization and living in the gift

45:48 – The Power Elite

46:10 – Kogi people on removing gold from the mountains

46:23 – Rivers that no longer reach the sea

47:22 – Hospice care

48:27 – Biophysical economics

49:52 – Ecological footprint

50:11 – Sustainability

51:51 – Energy return on investment (EROI), Reality Blind: The Energy Cost of Getting Energy

52:16 – Enclosure of the commons

54:49 – Money as a symbol

55:45 – Legitimacy crisis

56:49 – Negative capability

58:44 – Threshold guardian, Hero’s journey

59:05 – The Metacrisis, Top-down and bottom-up responses

59:26 – Global North and Global South

1:00:44 – Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning, the passage Charles paraphrases

1:02:06 – Psychedelic drugs

1:02:30 – Grief, The Great Simplification Ep 167

1:03:25 – Impermanence

1:04:38 – Continuing bonds

1:05:35 – Insect decline, Bird population decline

1:06:14 – When the Rituals Stop Working

1:06:48 – Ritual, Creating ritual

1:08:13 – Ancestor veneration

1:08:44 – Charles’s forthcoming book

1:09:18 – Fiat money, Performative utterance

1:09:36 – Fiat lux

1:10:48 – Bullshit Jobs

1:11:15 – Employee disengagement

1:12:09 – Olivier Hamant on robustness, Jazz improvisation, Debunking the idea of biological optimisation

1:16:34 – Adaptive function of fear

1:17:57 – Charles’s essays on AI: Intelligence in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction, The Staggering Implications of Nondeterministic AI, Virtual Intelligence

1:18:08 – Walter Benjamin, The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction

1:18:37 – Recorded music vs. live performance

1:19:08 – Emotional AI and pseudo-intimacy

1:19:33 – Narcissistic personality disorder, Microexpressions

1:20:15 – AI companions and risks

1:21:43 – Printing press

1:24:08 – Cognitive dissonance

1:26:35 – Intuition

1:26:50 – Wishful thinking

1:27:10 – Know thyself

1:29:36 – Cycle of violence

1:30:36 – Kogi people, Charles’s referenced quote: if you knew she could feel, you would stop

1:30:41 – Ciénaga Grande de Santa Marta restoration

1:31:06 – Objectification

1:31:34 – Intersubjectivity

1:33:10 – Consensus reality

1:34:35 – Parasocial interaction

1:35:20 – AI slop

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The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future (ISEOF) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, founded in 2008, that conducts research and educates the public about energy issues and their impact on society.

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