Ep 231  |  Greg Elliott

The Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis: The Rules of the Game Keep Us Trapped

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The Great Simplification

Description

Modern companies, markets, and institutions routinely behave in ways that would be diagnosed as pathological in a person: emotional detachment, strategic deception, grandiosity, and the treatment of people, animals, and ecosystems as means to an end. Yet, most of the individuals who make up these organizations don’t naturally hold these traits and behaviors themselves. So, why does exploitation keep winning at scale, even when most people are decent, cooperative, and want the same basic things? 

In this episode, Nate is joined by Greg Elliott, a systems theorist and author of the Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis (PSH), to unpack why our institutions themselves have become so psychopathic, and how that affects the behavior of the average human. Drawing on evolutionary game theory, anthropology, and the neuroscience of psychopathy, Greg argues that cooperation is evolutionarily stable in small tribal systems, but that modern systems where anonymity and abstraction make exploitative, instrumental strategies more profitable. He walks through how this dynamic produces what he calls “entrapment games,” in which pro-social people become behaviorally locked into relationships, jobs, and systems where leaving costs more than staying.  All of this builds toward the core of Greg’s theory: winning, instrumental strategies get crystallized into the operating logic of institutions themselves and reproduced by anyone who plays the game, whether or not they are personally psychopathic. While Greg doesn’t see any easy answers, he does offer a set of possible leverage points: shortening feedback loops, increasing transparency and accountability, and rebuilding smaller, reciprocal communities.

If domination isn’t an aberration but a predictable output of the game board we’ve built, what does that mean for how we try to fix it? Is it possible for an entire civilization to behave psychopathically even when the vast majority of the individual people inside it are empathetic and pro-social? And if the ultimate goal is to steer toward a more pro-social system, is there a way to ‘win the game’ and re-write the rules without also resorting to psychopathic strategies and behaviors?

About Greg Elliott

Greg is a Siemens solutions Consultant specializing in data science and AI, as well as the Co-Founder of Orbyfy.

His research and writing of his book, Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis: From Natural Selection to Symbolic Selection, Scale, Abstraction, and Institutional Collapse, led him to found The Institute for Symbolic Selection, an interdisciplinary research program investigating how human-created symbolic systems shape behavior, institutions, and the long-term evolution of civilization. 

New to game theory? Here’s a short primer:

Game theory is the study of how people make decisions when the outcome depends on what everyone else decides too, often with the potential for mutual gain or mutual harm. Its most famous illustration is the Prisoner’s Dilemma: two people, each individually better off betraying the other, who both end up worse off when they do.

For a deeper understanding, check out these links:

– Game Theory video explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ecJ_fDpWTg 

– Game Theory article explainer: https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GameTheory.html 

– Prisoner’s Dilemma deep dive video explainer: https://ed.ted.com/lessons/how-to-outsmart-the-prisoner-s-dilemma-lucas-husted 

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

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The TGS team puts together these brief references and show notes for the learning and convenience of our listeners. However, most of the points made in episodes hold more nuance than one link can address, and we encourage you to dig deeper into any of these topics and come to your own informed conclusions.

Guest: Greg Elliott:

Grab-and-Go Resources:

Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis

Game Theory primers

Related The Great Simplification content

Approaches

Citations by Timestamp:

02:04 – Agricultural revolution

02:55 – Game theory primers: Game theory, explained, How to outsmart the Prisoner’s Dilemma

03:23 – Game theory, Evolutionary biology, Institutional analysis

03:39 – Nancy McWilliams, J. Reid Meloy, Reality Roundtable 19

03:45 – Psychopathy, Dark triad: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, Narcissism

04:46 – William E. Rees (The Great Simplification appearance)

05:04 – Zak Stein (The Great Simplification appearances)

05:34 – Manufacturing Consent

06:18 – Behavioral profile of the trading floor: Emotional detachment, Grandiosity, Status-seeking and the dark triad, Impression management, Virtue signalling

07:10 – John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

07:32 – Oklahoma tenant farmers, Great Depression

08:20 – John Steinbeck (referenced quote)

09:03 – Tyranny

10:01 – Symbolic systems

10:28 – Reputation

11:56 – Behavioural architecture

12:08 – Mass layoffs

13:29 – Institutional mirroring

13:45 – Global supply chains

13:55 – Sustainability reports (OECD: Global Corporate Sustainability Report 2025)

14:14 – Child labour, Cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo

14:21 – Industrial water pollution

14:31 – Externality

15:09 – Objective functions

16:04 – Institutional behavioural signature: Strategic misrepresentation, Corporations as externalizing machines, Pathological lying

16:41 – Economic Superorganism, Frankly #97

17:18 – Bond markets vs. Coral reefs

17:44 – Adaptation, Fitness, Natural selection

17:55 – Symbolic systems in practice: Markets, Corporations, Legal systems, Bureaucracy

18:13 – AI safety (The Great Simplification episodes on such: #203, RR#20, #184)

18:56 – Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, David Sloan Wilson

19:06 – Multilevel selection, E.O. Wilson

19:22 – Repeated games

20:04 – Evolutionarily stable strategy

20:26 – Christopher Boehm

20:42 – Reverse dominance hierarchy

20:48 – Levelling mechanisms: Ridicule, Ostracism, Third-party punishment, Capital punishment

21:22 – *Prevalence of psychopathy, 1.2% by PCL-R

21:44 – Deep time

22:11 – Evolution of behaviour

22:31 – Inverted boundary conditions at scale: Anonymity, Hyperbolic discounting, Diffusion of responsibility

23:21 – Intergenerational equity

23:57 – Deception

24:21 – Fossil fuels

25:22 – Laws of thermodynamics

25:41 – Tit for tat

25:57 – Globalization

28:25 – Prisoner’s dilemma, Hawk–dove game, Tragedy of the commons

28:48 – Strategy space

29:43 – Unfolding crises: Climate change, World War III, Inequality

30:51 – Entrapment games

31:00 – Debt, Propaganda

32:18 – Neurocognitive profile of psychopathy: Reduced affective empathy, Weak moral learning, Reward system hypersensitivity

32:41 – Objectification of others

32:56 – Target autonomy problem

33:03 – Instrumental actors vs. Prosocial actors

34:03 – Theory of mind in psychopathy

35:00 – Mimicry

35:27 – Oxytocin, Attachment

36:55 – Evan Stark, Coercive control

37:58 – Loss-dominant equilibrium

39:01 – Wage labour

39:20 – Homomorphism

40:10 – Frankly #108: Why Humans Are Better Than We Think

41:45 – Symbolic selection

42:16 – Organizational socialization, Institutional logic

42:57 – Foreign exchange broker

43:12 – Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Open outcry trading pits

44:44 – Bid–ask spread

45:02 – Occupational burnout

47:14 – The Matrix

47:56 – Performance-based compensation, Customer relationship management systems

49:13 – Normalization of deviance

49:48 – Amygdala, Striatum, Fear conditioning

50:45 – Artificial empathy

51:03 – Apollo Research, In-context scheming

53:07 – Alignment faking

53:20 – Techne

53:37 – Dark tetrad traits and problematic generative AI use, Grandiose narcissism and social media use

54:49 – Noam Chomsky, Edward S. Herman, Propaganda model

55:05 – AI boom, Energy demand of AI (Bain: $2 trillion in new revenue needed to fund AI’s scaling trend)

56:24 – AI companion

57:00 – Cognitive offloading (Google effect)

57:20 – Deskilling

57:32 – Peer review under AI verification pressure

59:04 – Market segmentation

59:36 – Psychographics

1:00:23 – Confluence of crises: Global heating, Geopolitics, Income inequality, Political polarization, Loneliness

1:01:26 – Regulatory capture, Lobbying

1:03:09 – Ecological overshoot (Rees: The Human Ecology of Overshoot)

1:03:13 – Symbolic fitness

1:03:29 – Full-cost accounting

1:03:46 – Race to the bottom

1:05:03 – Positive feedback

1:05:19 – Productivity, Economic efficiency

1:05:41 – Accounting, Profit motive

1:06:42 – Key performance indicators

1:09:58 – State capacityMilitary capabilityNatural resources

1:10:26 – Emergence

1:11:30 – Shoshana Zuboff, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism

1:12:15 – Nucleus accumbens, Dopamine

1:12:38 – *Heritability of psychopathic traits at 40–60%

1:12:55 – Parahippocampal gyrus, Ventromedial prefrontal cortex

1:14:42 – Instrumental versus reactive aggression

1:15:00 – David Graeber, The Utopia of Rules

1:15:42 – Corporate psychopathy, *Psychopathy in 3.9% of corporate professionals, *Psychopathy by profession (Dutton’s ranking)

1:16:39 – Energy surplus

1:17:55 – Roman Empire, Slavery in ancient Rome

1:18:44 – Coevolution

1:19:20 – Determinism

1:19:50 – Strong reciprocity, Martin Nowak

1:20:03 – Leverage points

1:21:05 – Reversing the boundary conditions: 

1:21:29 – 2008 financial crisis, Moral hazard, Collateralized debt obligations

1:22:02 – Information asymmetry

1:22:21 – Panama Papers

1:22:28 – Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, Whistleblowing

1:22:38 – With great power comes great responsibility

1:22:43 – Epstein files

1:23:52 – Precarity, Gig economy (ILO: Employment and Social Trends 2026)

1:24:18 – Social safety net

1:24:31 – John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, Inheritance tax

1:25:01 – Ocean dumping

1:25:33 – Collective action problem

1:25:57 – Neoliberalism

1:26:45 – Societal collapse, Nonlinear systems

1:27:23 – Cooperative

1:28:14 – Mohawk people, Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Six Nations of the Grand River

1:28:58 – Seven generation sustainability

1:29:14 – Haudenosaunee Thanksgiving Address

1:29:33 – John Trudell

1:29:58 – Thunderheart

1:30:47 – Wetiko, Frankly #155

1:31:27 – European colonization of the Americas

1:32:04 – Transgenerational trauma

1:32:34 – Racism, Substance use among First Nations adults

1:32:46 – Indigenous language loss in Canada

1:33:17 – Metacrisis

1:33:46 – Agency, Frankly on such

1:34:10 – Cultural hegemony

1:35:22 – Digital detox

1:36:01 – Social isolation

1:38:32 – Path dependence

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