Ep 231 | Greg Elliott
The Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis: The Rules of the Game Keep Us Trapped
Description
Modern companies, markets, and institutions routinely behave in ways that would be diagnosed as pathological in a person: emotional detachment, strategic deception, grandiosity, and the treatment of people, animals, and ecosystems as means to an end. Yet, most of the individuals who make up these organizations don’t naturally hold these traits and behaviors themselves. So, why does exploitation keep winning at scale, even when most people are decent, cooperative, and want the same basic things?
In this episode, Nate is joined by Greg Elliott, a systems theorist and author of the Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis (PSH), to unpack why our institutions themselves have become so psychopathic, and how that affects the behavior of the average human. Drawing on evolutionary game theory, anthropology, and the neuroscience of psychopathy, Greg argues that cooperation is evolutionarily stable in small tribal systems, but that modern systems where anonymity and abstraction make exploitative, instrumental strategies more profitable. He walks through how this dynamic produces what he calls “entrapment games,” in which pro-social people become behaviorally locked into relationships, jobs, and systems where leaving costs more than staying. All of this builds toward the core of Greg’s theory: winning, instrumental strategies get crystallized into the operating logic of institutions themselves and reproduced by anyone who plays the game, whether or not they are personally psychopathic. While Greg doesn’t see any easy answers, he does offer a set of possible leverage points: shortening feedback loops, increasing transparency and accountability, and rebuilding smaller, reciprocal communities.
If domination isn’t an aberration but a predictable output of the game board we’ve built, what does that mean for how we try to fix it? Is it possible for an entire civilization to behave psychopathically even when the vast majority of the individual people inside it are empathetic and pro-social? And if the ultimate goal is to steer toward a more pro-social system, is there a way to ‘win the game’ and re-write the rules without also resorting to psychopathic strategies and behaviors?
About Greg Elliott
Greg is a Siemens solutions Consultant specializing in data science and AI, as well as the Co-Founder of Orbyfy.
His research and writing of his book, Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis: From Natural Selection to Symbolic Selection, Scale, Abstraction, and Institutional Collapse, led him to found The Institute for Symbolic Selection, an interdisciplinary research program investigating how human-created symbolic systems shape behavior, institutions, and the long-term evolution of civilization.
New to game theory? Here’s a short primer:
Game theory is the study of how people make decisions when the outcome depends on what everyone else decides too, often with the potential for mutual gain or mutual harm. Its most famous illustration is the Prisoner’s Dilemma: two people, each individually better off betraying the other, who both end up worse off when they do.
For a deeper understanding, check out these links:
– Game Theory video explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ecJ_fDpWTg
– Game Theory article explainer: https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GameTheory.html
– Prisoner’s Dilemma deep dive video explainer: https://ed.ted.com/lessons/how-to-outsmart-the-prisoner-s-dilemma-lucas-husted
Show Notes & Links to Learn More
Download transcriptThe TGS team puts together these brief references and show notes for the learning and convenience of our listeners. However, most of the points made in episodes hold more nuance than one link can address, and we encourage you to dig deeper into any of these topics and come to your own informed conclusions.
Guest: Greg Elliott:
- Book: The Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis
- Greg’s Substack & Medium
Grab-and-Go Resources:
Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis
- The Psychopathic Selection Hypothesis (Presentation on such)
- Psychophatic Selection Hypothesis Visual Introduction
Game Theory primers
- Game Theory video explainer
- Game Theory article explainer
- Prisoner’s Dilemma deep dive video explainer
Related The Great Simplification content
- Reality Roundtable #19: Dark Triad Personality Traits
- Frankly #108: The Influence of Psychopaths
- Frankly #97: The Superorganism Explained in 7 Minutes
Approaches
Citations by Timestamp:
02:04 – Agricultural revolution
02:55 – Game theory primers: Game theory, explained, How to outsmart the Prisoner’s Dilemma
03:23 – Game theory, Evolutionary biology, Institutional analysis
03:39 – Nancy McWilliams, J. Reid Meloy, Reality Roundtable 19
03:45 – Psychopathy, Dark triad: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, Narcissism
04:46 – William E. Rees (The Great Simplification appearance)
05:04 – Zak Stein (The Great Simplification appearances)
05:34 – Manufacturing Consent
06:18 – Behavioral profile of the trading floor: Emotional detachment, Grandiosity, Status-seeking and the dark triad, Impression management, Virtue signalling
07:10 – John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
07:32 – Oklahoma tenant farmers, Great Depression
08:20 – John Steinbeck (referenced quote)
09:03 – Tyranny
10:01 – Symbolic systems
10:28 – Reputation
11:56 – Behavioural architecture
12:08 – Mass layoffs
13:29 – Institutional mirroring
13:45 – Global supply chains
13:55 – Sustainability reports (OECD: Global Corporate Sustainability Report 2025)
14:14 – Child labour, Cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo
14:21 – Industrial water pollution
14:31 – Externality
15:09 – Objective functions
16:04 – Institutional behavioural signature: Strategic misrepresentation, Corporations as externalizing machines, Pathological lying
16:41 – Economic Superorganism, Frankly #97
17:18 – Bond markets vs. Coral reefs
17:44 – Adaptation, Fitness, Natural selection
17:55 – Symbolic systems in practice: Markets, Corporations, Legal systems, Bureaucracy
18:13 – AI safety (The Great Simplification episodes on such: #203, RR#20, #184)
18:56 – Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, David Sloan Wilson
19:06 – Multilevel selection, E.O. Wilson
19:22 – Repeated games
20:04 – Evolutionarily stable strategy
20:26 – Christopher Boehm
20:42 – Reverse dominance hierarchy
20:48 – Levelling mechanisms: Ridicule, Ostracism, Third-party punishment, Capital punishment
21:22 – *Prevalence of psychopathy, 1.2% by PCL-R
21:44 – Deep time
22:11 – Evolution of behaviour
22:31 – Inverted boundary conditions at scale: Anonymity, Hyperbolic discounting, Diffusion of responsibility
23:21 – Intergenerational equity
23:57 – Deception
24:21 – Fossil fuels
25:22 – Laws of thermodynamics
25:41 – Tit for tat
25:57 – Globalization
28:25 – Prisoner’s dilemma, Hawk–dove game, Tragedy of the commons
28:48 – Strategy space
29:43 – Unfolding crises: Climate change, World War III, Inequality
30:51 – Entrapment games
31:00 – Debt, Propaganda
32:18 – Neurocognitive profile of psychopathy: Reduced affective empathy, Weak moral learning, Reward system hypersensitivity
32:41 – Objectification of others
32:56 – Target autonomy problem
33:03 – Instrumental actors vs. Prosocial actors
34:03 – Theory of mind in psychopathy
35:00 – Mimicry
35:27 – Oxytocin, Attachment
36:55 – Evan Stark, Coercive control
37:58 – Loss-dominant equilibrium
39:01 – Wage labour
39:20 – Homomorphism
40:10 – Frankly #108: Why Humans Are Better Than We Think
41:45 – Symbolic selection
42:16 – Organizational socialization, Institutional logic
42:57 – Foreign exchange broker
43:12 – Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Open outcry trading pits
44:44 – Bid–ask spread
45:02 – Occupational burnout
47:14 – The Matrix
47:56 – Performance-based compensation, Customer relationship management systems
49:13 – Normalization of deviance
49:48 – Amygdala, Striatum, Fear conditioning
50:45 – Artificial empathy
51:03 – Apollo Research, In-context scheming
53:07 – Alignment faking
53:20 – Techne
53:37 – Dark tetrad traits and problematic generative AI use, Grandiose narcissism and social media use
54:49 – Noam Chomsky, Edward S. Herman, Propaganda model
55:05 – AI boom, Energy demand of AI (Bain: $2 trillion in new revenue needed to fund AI’s scaling trend)
56:24 – AI companion
57:00 – Cognitive offloading (Google effect)
57:20 – Deskilling
57:32 – Peer review under AI verification pressure
59:04 – Market segmentation
59:36 – Psychographics
1:00:23 – Confluence of crises: Global heating, Geopolitics, Income inequality, Political polarization, Loneliness
1:01:26 – Regulatory capture, Lobbying
1:03:09 – Ecological overshoot (Rees: The Human Ecology of Overshoot)
1:03:13 – Symbolic fitness
1:03:29 – Full-cost accounting
1:03:46 – Race to the bottom
1:05:03 – Positive feedback
1:05:19 – Productivity, Economic efficiency
1:05:41 – Accounting, Profit motive
1:06:42 – Key performance indicators
1:09:58 – State capacity → Military capability → Natural resources
1:10:26 – Emergence
1:11:30 – Shoshana Zuboff, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism
1:12:15 – Nucleus accumbens, Dopamine
1:12:38 – *Heritability of psychopathic traits at 40–60%
1:12:55 – Parahippocampal gyrus, Ventromedial prefrontal cortex
1:14:42 – Instrumental versus reactive aggression
1:15:00 – David Graeber, The Utopia of Rules
1:15:42 – Corporate psychopathy, *Psychopathy in 3.9% of corporate professionals, *Psychopathy by profession (Dutton’s ranking)
1:16:39 – Energy surplus
1:17:55 – Roman Empire, Slavery in ancient Rome
1:18:44 – Coevolution
1:19:20 – Determinism
1:19:50 – Strong reciprocity, Martin Nowak
1:20:03 – Leverage points
1:21:05 – Reversing the boundary conditions:
1:21:29 – 2008 financial crisis, Moral hazard, Collateralized debt obligations
1:22:02 – Information asymmetry
1:22:21 – Panama Papers
1:22:28 – Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, Whistleblowing
1:22:38 – With great power comes great responsibility
1:22:43 – Epstein files
1:23:52 – Precarity, Gig economy (ILO: Employment and Social Trends 2026)
1:24:18 – Social safety net
1:24:31 – John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, Inheritance tax
1:25:01 – Ocean dumping
1:25:33 – Collective action problem
1:25:57 – Neoliberalism
1:26:45 – Societal collapse, Nonlinear systems
1:27:23 – Cooperative
1:28:14 – Mohawk people, Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Six Nations of the Grand River
1:28:58 – Seven generation sustainability
1:29:14 – Haudenosaunee Thanksgiving Address
1:29:33 – John Trudell
1:29:58 – Thunderheart
1:30:47 – Wetiko, Frankly #155
1:31:27 – European colonization of the Americas
1:32:04 – Transgenerational trauma
1:32:34 – Racism, Substance use among First Nations adults
1:32:46 – Indigenous language loss in Canada
1:33:17 – Metacrisis
1:33:46 – Agency, Frankly on such
1:34:10 – Cultural hegemony
1:35:22 – Digital detox
1:36:01 – Social isolation
1:38:32 – Path dependence



