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Ep 79  |  Anne Biklé and David Montgomery

Anne Biklé and David Montgomery: “Nourishing the Land and Ourselves”

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TGS79 David Montgomery and Anne Bikle The Great Simplification

Show Summary

On this episode, Nate is joined by “free range biologist” Anne Biklé and “broad-minded geologist” David Montgomery – a married duo who have been educating about the link between soil and human health for nearly a decade. As we continue to strip the land and soil of its life supporting capacity, our food has become less nutritious, even as we’ve received more calories. Has the age of ‘The Green Revolution’ – accredited with preventing millions from famine – led us to a new epidemic of starvation in the form of micronutrients? How do our modern systems degrade the land, leaving us with lifeless dirt even more dependent on fossil inputs? Can we implement better agricultural practices that lead to lively and fertile soils, better health, and a reconnection with the land that feeds us?

About Anne Biklé & David R. Montgomery

Anne Biklé is a science writer and public speaker drawing on her background in biology and environmental planning to explore humanity’s tangled relationship with nature through the lens of agriculture, soil, and food. She is particularly enthralled with the botanical world and its influence on humanity throughout history. Her writing has appeared in digital and print magazines, newspapers, and her work has been featured in radio and independent documentary films.

David R. Montgomery is a MacArthur Fellow and professor of geomorphology at the University of Washington. He is an internationally recognized geologist who studies the effects of geological processes on ecological systems and human societies. He is the author of several textbooks in his field and his work has been featured in documentary films, network and cable news, TV, and radio.

Anne and David are married and live in Seattle, WA. In 2023, they published What Your Food Ate: How to Heal Our Land and Reclaim Our Health, which builds on their trilogy of books about soil health, microbiomes, and farming—Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations, The Hidden Half of Nature, and Growing a Revolution.

In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President

That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher

We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF

This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

00:00 – Anne Biklé and David Montgomery works + info

01:51 – Soil, regenerative agriculture, food system

02:50 – Climate change, oil depletion

04:32 – Energy Blind, carbon pulse

05:12 – Agricultural productivity, Soil degradation, the decline of civilizations

05:30 – 95%* of our food directly comes from the soil

05:58 – Soil erosion Anne and David’s book: Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations

06:35 – Syria, Libya

09:22 – Organic matter

10:21 – Mycelium

11:03 – We have lost ~50% of organic matter in most agricultural soils

12:17 – Pakistan rain event, Australia 2ft of rain in one day

12:31 – Erosion is a natural process

12:46 – Zinc, iron that plants need for health and we need for our bodies

14:22 – Charles Darwin’s fascination with earthworms

15:01 – Average pace of natural soil building 0.02 mm per year

15:17 – Average rate of topsoil erosion today off of conventionally managed agricultural fields is 1.5 mm a year

15:23 – Evan Thaler and Isaac Larsen study average of 1.8 mm year erosion across American Midwest last 150 years 

15:41 – Takes 20 years to lose an inch of topsoil and a 1000 years to replace

15:59 – Soil fertility

17:53 – Nutrient density

19:26 – Mineral elements

19:41 – Microorganisms in soil

20:07 – Fungi which are transporters, mycorrhizal fungi

20:45 – Fungal hyphae and transport of iron, zinc, phosphorous

21:23 – Symbiotic relationships

21:42 – Plants manufacturing sugars, proteins, fats

22:47 – Early organic agriculture pioneers in the UK, Sir Albert Howard, Lady Eve Balfour

23:39 – Louis Pasteur, Robert Koch, pathogens, fermentation

24:41 – Human gut microbiome, Anne and David’s book: The Hidden Half of Nature

25:59 – Co-evolutionary relationships

26:24 – Immune systems

27:00 – Synthetic inputs to soil nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium

28:03 – Exudates, Anne and David’s book: What Your Food Ate

32:27 – Phytochemicals, beta-carotene, and anti-tyrosine in berries 

33:11 – Phytochemicals defending against pathogens and herbivores 

34:55 – Genome

35:41 – Pesticides

36:06 – Dilution Effect

37:20 – Micronutrients

38:40 – UK study looking at nutrient levels in foods – 25-50% losses

41:40 – Bodies can tell us we’re still hungry when we’re only missing some micronutrients, even though we’ve met caloric needs

43:55 – Isolated vitamins don’t work the same as vitamins encapsulated in food

49:30 – Feeding yourself for your microbiome

50:38 – The protein/fat balance of livestock is very dependent on what they were fed

51:42 – Robert Lustig + TGS Episode

51:59 – Dick Gephardt

54:16 – We don’t have enough fruits and vegetables grown in the US for everyone to meet recommendations

56:08 – Fecal transplants

56:33 – Living with others helps share microbiome and improve immune system

1:02:26 – Diversity of plants vs monocropping, Anne and David’s book: Growing a Revolution

1:04:58 – Animals as a soil inoculator

1:06:30 – No till

1:09:55 – Cover crops

1:11:35 – Current industrial system is 10-14:1 energy sink

1:14:30 – Soil regeneration and mitigating climate change are very synergistic 

1:17:15 – No Till Technology

1:22:27 – 7 in 10 people have a chronic illness

1:22:51 – Regenerative practices can be more profitable than conventional agriculture

1:27:30 – Climate anxiety

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