Anne Biklé and David Montgomery: "Nourishing the Land and Ourselves"
Episode 79
July 12th, 2023
(Conversation recorded on May 30th, 2023)
Show Summary
On this episode, Nate is joined by “free range biologist” Anne Biklé and “broad-minded geologist” David Montgomery - a married duo who have been educating about the link between soil and human health for nearly a decade. As we continue to strip the land and soil of its life supporting capacity, our food has become less nutritious, even as we’ve received more calories. Has the age of ‘The Green Revolution’ - accredited with preventing millions from famine - led us to a new epidemic of starvation in the form of micronutrients? How do our modern systems degrade the land, leaving us with lifeless dirt even more dependent on fossil inputs? Can we implement better agricultural practices that lead to lively and fertile soils, better health, and a reconnection with the land that feeds us?
About Anne Biklé & David R. Montgomery
Anne Biklé is a science writer and public speaker drawing on her background in biology and environmental planning to explore humanity’s tangled relationship with nature through the lens of agriculture, soil, and food. She is particularly enthralled with the botanical world and its influence on humanity throughout history. Her writing has appeared in digital and print magazines, newspapers, and her work has been featured in radio and independent documentary films.
David R. Montgomery is a MacArthur Fellow and professor of geomorphology at the University of Washington. He is an internationally recognized geologist who studies the effects of geological processes on ecological systems and human societies. He is the author of several textbooks in his field and his work has been featured in documentary films, network and cable news, TV, and radio.
Anne and David are married and live in Seattle, WA. In 2023, they published What Your Food Ate: How to Heal Our Land and Reclaim Our Health, which builds on their trilogy of books about soil health, microbiomes, and farming—Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations, The Hidden Half of Nature, and Growing a Revolution.
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Show Notes & Links to Learn More
00:00 - Anne Biklé and David Montgomery works + info
01:51 - Soil, regenerative agriculture, food system
02:50 - Climate change, oil depletion
04:32 - Energy Blind, carbon pulse
05:12 - Agricultural productivity, Soil degradation, the decline of civilizations
05:30 - 95%* of our food directly comes from the soil
05:58 - Soil erosion Anne and David’s book: Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations
09:22 - Organic matter
10:21 - Mycelium
11:03 - We have lost ~50% of organic matter in most agricultural soils
12:17 - Pakistan rain event, Australia 2ft of rain in one day
12:31 - Erosion is a natural process
12:46 - Zinc, iron that plants need for health and we need for our bodies
14:22 - Charles Darwin’s fascination with earthworms
15:01 - Average pace of natural soil building 0.02 mm per year
15:41 - Takes 20 years to lose an inch of topsoil and a 1000 years to replace
15:59 - Soil fertility
17:53 - Nutrient density
19:26 - Mineral elements
19:41 - Microorganisms in soil
20:07 - Fungi which are transporters, mycorrhizal fungi
20:45 - Fungal hyphae and transport of iron, zinc, phosphorous
21:23 - Symbiotic relationships
21:42 - Plants manufacturing sugars, proteins, fats
22:47 - Early organic agriculture pioneers in the UK, Sir Albert Howard, Lady Eve Balfour
23:39 - Louis Pasteur, Robert Koch, pathogens, fermentation
24:41 - Human gut microbiome, Anne and David’s book: The Hidden Half of Nature
25:59 - Co-evolutionary relationships
26:24 - Immune systems
27:00 - Synthetic inputs to soil nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium
28:03 - Exudates, Anne and David’s book: What Your Food Ate
32:27 - Phytochemicals, beta-carotene, and anti-tyrosine in berries
33:11 - Phytochemicals defending against pathogens and herbivores
34:55 - Genome
35:41 - Pesticides
36:06 - Dilution Effect
37:20 - Micronutrients
38:40 - UK study looking at nutrient levels in foods - 25-50% losses
43:55 - Isolated vitamins don’t work the same as vitamins encapsulated in food
49:30 - Feeding yourself for your microbiome
50:38 - The protein/fat balance of livestock is very dependent on what they were fed
51:42 - Robert Lustig + TGS Episode
51:59 - Dick Gephardt
54:16 - We don’t have enough fruits and vegetables grown in the US for everyone to meet recommendations
56:08 - Fecal transplants
56:33 - Living with others helps share microbiome and improve immune system
1:02:26 - Diversity of plants vs monocropping, Anne and David’s book: Growing a Revolution
1:04:58 - Animals as a soil inoculator
1:06:30 - No till
1:09:55 - Cover crops
1:11:35 - Current industrial system is 10-14:1 energy sink
1:14:30 - Soil regeneration and mitigating climate change are very synergistic
1:17:15 - No Till Technology
1:22:27 - 7 in 10 people have a chronic illness
1:22:51 - Regenerative practices can be more profitable than conventional agriculture
1:27:30 - Climate anxiety