Pedro Prieto — Fragile Electric Grids: Did Renewables Cause the Blackout in Spain?




Episode 176
May 7th, 2025

(Conversation recorded on May 1st, 2025)

Show Summary

Last week, Europe experienced its worst blackout in living memory, which plunged tens of millions of people across Spain and Portugal into darkness for up to 18 hours. Life screeched to a halt, with trains, traffic lights, ATMs, phone connections, and internet access failing. In the aftermath, many important questions have arisen, including: what caused such a widespread grid failure, and how can Europe and other nations prepare for the next time an event like this happens? 

In today’s episode, Nate is joined by Pedro Prieto to discuss the recent blackout in the Iberian Peninsula, exploring its causes, impacts, and the role of renewable energy in the stability of the electric grid. Prieto highlights the societal and infrastructural challenges that his home country faced, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach to energy management, as well as the interconnectedness of energy systems and societal resilience. The discussion delves into the complexities of energy demand and supply, the importance of backup systems, and the future of renewable energy in Spain.

Are developed countries more vulnerable to blackouts than those that are still developing? How does renewable energy act as a double-edged sword, adding stability or fragility to energy infrastructure, depending on how it's used? How might developed countries learn lessons from this widespread blackout, including policy changes or reducing energy dependence in the face of future energy challenges?

About Pedro Prieto

Pedro is the vice president of the Asociación para el Estudio de los Recursos Energéticos (AEREN). AEREN is an open space for debate and communications on energy issues and their role in demography, development, economy and ecology. Pedro was a member of the board at ASPO International with AEREN representing ASPO in Spain. Since 2004, Pedro has led several solar photovoltaic projects in Spain, a leading world country in solar PV penetration. Pedro co-authored Spain's Photovoltaic Revolution. The Energy Return on Investment, that challenged the conventional energy boundaries considered up to the moment for calculations.

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

PDF Transcript (Spanish Transcript)

00:00 - Pedro Prieto, Pedro’s previous Reality Roundtable, Pedro’s speculations on Blackout causes

Images used in this podcast

02:09 - Iberian Peninsula Blackout, NASA Map of Blackout, The Agonizing Task of Turning Europe’s Power Back On

02:24 - Figure 1, Figure 2, Source

02:50 - Chaos in Spain during the Blackout

03:15 - Part of France was affected, but immediately stabilized 

03:31 - 3 of Spain’s 7 nuclear power plants were not in service

04:20 - Upton Sinclair’s quote

04:45 - Speculation on the causes of the Blackout

06:48 - Brazil’s response to blackouts and brownouts

07:49 - Uninterruptible power supply 

09:40 - Copper wire vs. Fiber optics 

10:42 - Many water systems rely on electricity, Same with pipeline natural gas

12:56 - Community during the Blackout

14:45 - Spain’s Photovoltaic Revolution 

15:30 - Spain is one of the biggest producers of renewables

16:53 - Percentage renewable energy powering Spain’s electricity

17:26 - Hydropower is more reliable than solar and wind

18:01 - Intermittent energy

18:06 - Spain’s renewable exports

19:03 - Spain’s electric system frequency, Alternate Current vs Direct Current

19:45 - Electricity systems are prepared to defend themselves

20:05 - Inertia and the power grid

20:18 - Power station 

21:00 - Operating reserves for electric systems

21:20 - Synchronous Energy Systems

21:59 - Antonio Turiel, prior TGS Episode + Roundtable  

22:07 - Power Inverter, Photovoltaic System, Combined Cycle Energy

23:13 - Balancing feedback loop, Negative and Positive feedback loops

25:50 - 19 Terawatt Society, Energy consumption by source

29:00 - Beatriz Corredor, Comments on Blackout

29:54 - Energías Renovables Spanish Magazine 

30:32 - Upcoming renewable projects in Spain 

31:38 - Nate’s PhD thesis

34:30 - Iraq War, Baghdad blackout, Current Iraq grid issues

37:30 - Energy Blindness

40:25 - Pumped-Storage Hydropower system

41:26 - Lithium-ion battery costs

41:40 - Tom Murphy’s “Do the Math” blog (TGS Episode, Frankly and Reality Roundtable)

43:00 - Renewables could power civilization, just not this one

48:40 - After basic needs, the best things in life are free

48:42 - Jean-Marc Jancovici (TGS Episodes 1+ 2), "Sobriété"

50:45 - More than half of the human population live in urban areas

51:15 - The Superorganism

51:45 - The Great Simplification

53:40 - Spain’s prosocial culture

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Jean-Marc Jancovici — Sobriété vs Poverty: Preparing for a New Cultural Paradigm