Sobriété vs Poverty

Ep 175  |  Jean-Marc Jancovici

Jean-Marc Jancovici – Sobriete vs Poverty: Preparing for a New Cultural Paradigm

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Jean Marc Jancovici The Great Simplification

Description

As economic, political, and environmental pressures continue to reshape our daily choices, it’s becoming increasingly clear that the era of hyper-consumption that defined the past century is no longer sustainable. Recognizing and adapting to this reality represents one of the most profound cultural shifts of our time – requiring collective reflection and cooperation. But just as importantly, how can we recalibrate our personal expectations today in ways that preserve our sense of agency and sufficiency?

In this episode, Nate is joined by energy expert and educator Jean-Marc Jancovici, who shares insights from his ongoing work advising governments and the public on the limits of our economic systems amid growing energy and ecological constraints. Together, they discuss the evolving geopolitical landscape between the U.S. and Europe, the distinction between energy sobriéte and poverty, and the role of the elite in leading societal change towards more practical consumption levels. 

How can we change the way we’re communicating the science behind our predicament, especially as political and economic tensions continue to accelerate? Why is our collective vision of the future so important for preventing political turmoil? Finally, how can we combine technological efficiency with a change in cultural values to create a future that’s not just survivable, but meaningfully better than the default?

About Jean-Marc Jancovici

Jean-Marc Jancovici is a founding partner of Carbone 4, a Paris based consultancy and data provider specializing in low carbon transition, biodiversity impacts, and physical risks of climate change. He is the founder and president of The Shift Project, a Paris based think tank advocating for a low carbon economy. Jean-Marc Jancovici is also an associate professor at Mines ParisTech, member of the French High Council for the Climate, and (co-)author of 8 books. Most recently, he and Christophe Blain released an American adaptation of their graphic novel, World Without End, which describes why our energy and environmental constraints require us to rethink everything: our energy supply, our economies, and our whole world. 

In French, we have a motto that says that a simple drawing is often better than a long explanation. Jean-Marc Jancovici Carbone 4 President

That’s very understandable because with left atmosphere thinking, one of the problems is that you see everything as a series of problems that must have solutions. Iain McGilchrist Neuroscientist and Philosopher

We can’t have hundreds and hundreds of real relationships that are healthy because that requires time and effort and full attention and awareness of being in real relationship and conversation with the other human. Nate Hagens Director of ISEOF

This is the crux of the whole problem. Individual parts of nature are more valuable than the biocomplexity of nature. Thomas Crowther Founder Restor

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

00:00 – Jean-Marc Jancovici, Previous TGS Episode

02:49 – “World Without End” US Version, Original Version

03:09 – The relationship between energy and technology

03:14 – Rise of Globalization and Loss of Biodiversity

03:29 – Fossil Fuels are hard to quit

03:40 – Climate Change

03:55 – Logical Reasoning

04:01 – The issue with Greenhouse Gases

04:19 – Fossil Fuels have given us the wealth we have today

05:01 – Carbon Pulse

05:22 – Un bon croquis vaut mieux qu’un long discours

05:29 – Christophe Blain

09:46 – Metric vs. Imperial unit system

11:09 – Iron Man armor

12:34 – The relationship between War, Geopolitics, Polarization, etc.

13:36 – The importance of Education for democracy

13:47 – 32% of United States citizens support Authoritarian government

14:06 – Crises can bring about change under certain conditions

15:07 – How U.S. Congress is using science for policy-making

15:18 – Public Trust in Scientists and Views on Their Role in Policymaking

18:14 – Confidence in scientists is up slightly but remains lower since before the pandemic

19:09 – How EU/France might respond to the Trump Administration

19:29 – Risk of Recession amongst U.S. tariffs

20:28 – Financial Crisis correlated with Peak Oil, maximum energy consumption in the U.S. in 2007 and Europe in 2006

21:07 – Greenhouse gas emissions have decreased in US since 2007 and Europe since 1990

21:15 – During first Trump’s first term carbon emissions declined the fastest

22:36 – Oil fields in the US, all but one have declining output, Permian Basin

23:29 – Trump is “flooding the zone”

23:55 – Europe should design their own/old plan separate from the U.S.

24:14 – Europe is a resource and energy poor continent

24:23 – Plans to withdraw U.S. security from Europe

26:44 – Populist parties on the rise in Europe

29:17 – The concept of “Sobriete”

30:11 – The problem with Energy Efficiency, Voluntary Simplicity vs. Poverty

32:00 – Poverty triggers political turmoil

34:49 – The rich are the least afraid of an unstable world

36:18 – Acceleration in global heating since 2023

36:37 – Record year for emissions in 2024

37:41 – Decline of Fossil Fuel access will not evenly distributed throughout of the world

37:48 – EU dependency on imports for fossil fuels

38:09 – Japan has been on the decline for 30 years, Stagflation

38:33 – Huge amounts of coal left, Switch from coal to gas

40:13 – India is increasing coal for AC because of warming

40:44 – Failure of COP, removal of science institutions in US, increasing focus on energy security

41:01 – Aggregate Behavior, Game Theory

41:07 – Superorganism

41:34 – First Christians resist crucifixion

41:49 – Humans need meaning

43:22 – The Shift Project’s Report: decarbonize the transition – monetary to physical

45:19 – Electric trains and energy efficiency

47:08 – Populism on the rise by taking advantage of fearful citizens (see pg. 29 by Philippe Legrain)

48:13 – The Shift Project’s guidance to the French government for decarbonizing

48:55 – European energy sovereignty, Europe imports all Fossil Fuels

49:16 – The U.S. is self-sufficient regarding oil and gas

50:33 – Delusion of Infinite Growth, Humans and Social Status

50:12 – Pierre Strack on 2000W Society + TGS Episode, Alexis Zeigler on Living Energy Farm + TGS Episode

51:01 – Social Status Drives Consumption and Conspicuous Consumption

51:50 – Optimal Foraging Theory

52:05 – Why Humans like to accumulate and save resources

52:46 – Humans are highly social animals

54:34 – Artificial Intelligence is not intelligence

55:03 – Europe and Artificial Intelligence, Why the US is the center of AI, Public Opinion

59:40 – Sales of Tesla are declining in Europe

59:57 – French tourism to the US is declining

1:00:48 – US support to Israel

1:00:50 – US role in negotiating peace in Russia and Ukraine

1:01:54 – The Carbon Pulse

1:02:15 – BREXIT, Italian PM Meloni

1:04:27 – Frankly on The Central Questions of Our Time

1:06:05 – French export of electricity and The Shift Project on Artificial Intelligence

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